Comments on: How do the tools of TRIZ work together? http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/ Learning how to create Market Breakthrough Products through targeted Open Innovation and Networking Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:56:43 +0200 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: john http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/#comment-75 john Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:35:43 +0000 http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/?p=128#comment-75 Hi Ellen, thanks for your comments. I guess use of ideality as a tool vs. a concept is a moot point. Maybe what I should have said is that it is less directly connected to the problem situation. As a concept, I agree it (and the laws and lines of evolution) can still help inventive thinking a lot, but I think it doesn't offer you the same systematic toe-hold that the other arrowy parts of my diagram are attempting to show. I've been working with the diagram for some time because I wanted to capture and explain how the tools can work together. It's the best I've managed so far and I'm keen to improve it. Any suggestions? Hi Ellen, thanks for your comments. I guess use of ideality as a tool vs. a concept is a moot point. Maybe what I should have said is that it is less directly connected to the problem situation. As a concept, I agree it (and the laws and lines of evolution) can still help inventive thinking a lot, but I think it doesn’t offer you the same systematic toe-hold that the other arrowy parts of my diagram are attempting to show. I’ve been working with the diagram for some time because I wanted to capture and explain how the tools can work together. It’s the best I’ve managed so far and I’m keen to improve it. Any suggestions?

]]> By: Ellen Domb http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/#comment-65 Ellen Domb Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:12:39 +0000 http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/?p=128#comment-65 Small disagreement about ideality not acting directly on the problem--I find that getting beginners focused on ideality can frequently be easier than getting them into the function analysis (which is part of ARIZ OR part of preparing to use the 76 Standards, in your model). Example from this week--the big "ah-ha" in a group of engine designers who were saying that the engine needs hot lubricant. Discussion of ideality got them to hot lubricant = one way of getting low viscosity lubricant. BUT lubricant is a "band-aid"--what they really need is materials that don't interfere with each other, and don't need lubricant to make the interfering surfaces not wear. I tell beginner TRIZ students that ideality is the scariest tool of TRIZ, because it tells them that they are going to go out of business. They like the challenge more than my previous way of teaching the topic, which was more focused on the definitions and mechanisms. "Ideality gives you the benefit without cost and harm," is the classical definition, and "The ideal system takes care of itself" is a more casual definition, but I agree that both need work and interpretation to ACT on the problem. When you are ready to work on the 76 Standards, John Terninko, Joe Miller and I published an English version with examples in the TRIZ Journal in 2001. Time for an update--let me know if you want to use it. Also, we tried to work on an ARIZ book, and found that all the examples we tried were either too easy (could be solved with less formal TRIZ methods, did not require the full structure of ARIZ) or too specific to a particular technology, so would not be good subjects for a book for general TRIZ readers. I'll look forward to seeing your examples. Ellen Domb Small disagreement about ideality not acting directly on the problem–I find that getting beginners focused on ideality can frequently be easier than getting them into the function analysis (which is part of ARIZ OR part of preparing to use the 76 Standards, in your model). Example from this week–the big “ah-ha” in a group of engine designers who were saying that the engine needs hot lubricant. Discussion of ideality got them to hot lubricant = one way of getting low viscosity lubricant. BUT lubricant is a “band-aid”–what they really need is materials that don’t interfere with each other, and don’t need lubricant to make the interfering surfaces not wear.

I tell beginner TRIZ students that ideality is the scariest tool of TRIZ, because it tells them that they are going to go out of business. They like the challenge more than my previous way of teaching the topic, which was more focused on the definitions and mechanisms. “Ideality gives you the benefit without cost and harm,” is the classical definition, and “The ideal system takes care of itself” is a more casual definition, but I agree that both need work and interpretation to ACT on the problem.

When you are ready to work on the 76 Standards, John Terninko, Joe Miller and I published an English version with examples in the TRIZ Journal in 2001. Time for an update–let me know if you want to use it. Also, we tried to work on an ARIZ book, and found that all the examples we tried were either too easy (could be solved with less formal TRIZ methods, did not require the full structure of ARIZ) or too specific to a particular technology, so would not be good subjects for a book for general TRIZ readers. I’ll look forward to seeing your examples.

Ellen Domb

]]> By: Andrei Golidze http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/#comment-44 Andrei Golidze Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:39:29 +0000 http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/?p=128#comment-44 Looking forward to it. Looking forward to it.

]]> By: john http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/#comment-43 john Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:19:40 +0000 http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/?p=128#comment-43 Hi Andrei, great idea. I think I'll publish my first ARIZ analysis - the one that proved to me that TRIZ really works! Hi Andrei,

great idea. I think I’ll publish my first ARIZ analysis – the one that proved to me that TRIZ really works!

]]> By: Andrei Golidze http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/index.php/2008/07/01/how-do-the-tools-of-triz-work-together/#comment-41 Andrei Golidze Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:43:36 +0000 http://www.cocatalyst.com/blog/?p=128#comment-41 Hi, John: I think many visitors of your site would greatly appreciate it if you could publish ARIZ analysis of some of the problems that you have solved during your tenure at Mars. I certainly would. Hi, John:

I think many visitors of your site would greatly appreciate it if you could publish ARIZ analysis of some of the problems that you have solved during your tenure at Mars. I certainly would.

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